>> secondarily, i'm doing this whole thing now. >> brenda: whoo! >> this is the best prediction we've ever had. you know? >> he loves this stuff. >> all right. cavuto on business next! (laughter) . >> mike: it's not about winter blues, it's all about your green. one month until you decide who gets to live in the house, and washington is getting his fiscal house in order. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto and the fiscal hill that we're over. and the co-chairman alan simpson about before the first presidential debate. >> one of the arguments is, no matter who is elected, they, the table this for six months, whether it's to reelect president obama or newly elected president romney, deal

with it in the winter in a substantive way, going so far as to reform the tax code, everything you want. do you think that's what's going to happen? >> i think that could happen, regardless who is president because the markets are going to begin to rattle their chains, it will be like a dungeon, say, look. >> why haven't they rattled? >> they're waiting for this to pass. >> anything could happen. >> they look at america as some the stupidest people on earth if they're going to let go over the cliff when you have a mindless sequester of 600 billion on defense, 600 billion with an ax, they're going to say you're dysfunctional and we want more money for our money and inflation kicks up and the guy that gets hurt the worse, the little guy that everybody talks about day and night. >> a funny thing happened on the way to the debate. neither candidate getting a question on that fiscal cliff. and so, if they are talking about it, as a time for taxpayers to start worrying

about it? to ben stein, gerri willis and ben stein and charlie gasperino. >> people have to figure 0 this out. 90% of american households here are going to find some kind of new tax and that means 500 billion dollars is going to be raised. 120 million households are going to be impacted not just the expiration of the bush tax cuts, there are now obamacare taxes going into place and it's going to kill investments and taxes on dividends go up 20%, long-term capital gains taxes go up 7%, i'm telling you if ne don't work on this, the whole economy is going to come skidding to a halt. >> and ben, the irony of course the debates focused on the economy and this seems like question he number one. >> i'm floored, charles, i'm glad you brought it up. the sequester is probably as bad an idea as ever come out of congress and the white house. the idea to me in particular, of cutting the defense budget,

5% of the budget, equally, roughly 5% of gdp, very, very roughly, more like 4%. >> right. >> ehe quali with domestic spending is just insanity, it's suicide. if mr. osama bin laden were still alive, he would like us to be doing this. everyone would like us to be disarming unilaterally and it makes no sense at all. >> adam, i've got to say, mitt romney brought up simpson bowles, even though the question was never asked and acknowledging the question something needs to be done. >> he brought up simpson bowles, and either candidate is discussing the fiscal cliff, there isn't much difference between them. a pox on both their houses. >> it's a bipartisan mistake and problem. i don't disagree with what jerry and ben said. the fiscal cliff is a disaster in the waiting. a low probability that the disaster will come to fruition, the politicians are

content to wait until after the election to do with it. >> and break up-- make the point this is bad for the economy. a lot of people talk about the markets. i don't know, if you have the automatic cuts, you have automatic taxes, you have the deficit being dealt with in an insane way, at least being dealt with, i'm not so sure the markets are going to implode-- >> you don't think, you think the markets will whistle past this. >> at least they're going to say something is going on. at least they're doing something. >> and anyway, right. >> it's going to hurt the economy long-term no doubt. >> the it's the federal reserve behind the market. >> what about the notion that maybe if there were stronger leadership from the white house we wouldn't have to take such a ham-fisted approach. in other words, how come there can't be an elegant solution, i can't get my way, you can't get your way, let's just destroy it all. >> interestingly enough goes back to obamacare, i think it has to do with the incredit mri high-handed autocratic way

that mr. obama shoved through obamacare and they're saying we're not going to cooperate at all. i think had there been a spirit of cooperation coming out of the white house with obamacare, all of this would not have happened. >> if i may-- >> adam. >> i think that's sort of of silly, if you'll forgive me, ben, finger pointing. i'm going to go ahead and criticize the congress, going to criticize the administration. charles, air absolutely right. we need leadership on this issue, we haven't gotten leadership, the politicians are waiting for the crisis to get worse, and they're waiting-- >> air glossing over the fact that simpson bowles was bipartisan and the president looked the other way, and not even as a starting point. listen, you could criticize paul ryan for not agreeing with simpson bowles. >> same on him for that, i agree with you. >> it was a starting point. at least paul ryan put his own plan up. president obama, he's not led like this much on the issue. >> gerry, confidence post

election, somehow these guys will get their act together? >> i'm not convinced. if you look, you look at their track record. if you look at their track record, what you see is an unwillingness. >> we have a president who is not-- did you see the debate one of the most absurd things about the debate he really had no clue about some of the basics of this economy. >> that's right. >> that's not someone that is going to deal with it. >> unfamiliar and-- >> and i want to go to ben for a second. ben, you've been the one on the panel most talked about a balanced approach to this. is there a-- is there an elegant solution, one out there where everyone takes a little bit of pain, but we don't go over that proverbial fiscal cliff everyone should be worried about? >> i think high income people, people are going to have a take a lot of pain, and they, when i say we deserve it. our taxes are just too low. we need higher taxes on wealthier people. >> we need jobs. >> there's not going to be a shortage of capital, there's plenty of capital, it's just awash in capital and that's

not the problem. >> our problem is not-- is not that taxes are too low, they're not. because if they were lower we'd get more jobs and more revenue, that's exactly what we need, ben, let me tell you something, you raise taxes we're going back-- >> absolutely. i couldn't agree with that more. and the deficit gets with bigger and the deficit gets bigger. >> raise taxes and-- >> we've got, okay, adam. can you break this? what do you think? which side are you on here, a fiscal cliff, how do we address this, higher taxes, lower taxes? >> we won't have a sequester for more than a few days. i can see it happening, but it won't last very long. what we have to have higher taxes. >> no, come on. >> and we know that, we will. >> all right i tell you what-- >> you know what, we'll have double dip recession. >> we may be going there anyway. >> all right, i tell what you, guys, we may, to adam's point have it for a couple of days, but tell you charlie the only

reason we will have it for a couple of days the markets would react if this things started. >> i agree. why would the markets react if you're going to do something-- >> got you there. >> and the same way it reacted last year when we talked about double dip recession. >> that was a default. >> and cut spending, charlie, the economy-- >> and everyone made great points, by the way, neil is not waiting around for lawmakers for this fiscal cliff to take us over the cliff. he's going to d.c. and demanding answers, hosting a live edition of cost of freedom one week from today. the countdown to catastrophe. he's been on this. and he's on next saturday, can't afford to miss it. but up here next, mitt wasn't hit in the first debate. hit in the first debate. is that h

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right now, have a great day everybody. >> well, if cash is king, who is crowned off the first presidential debate? president obama holding the money edge for now, but governor romney's performance might change the game. >> charlie, you followed the numbers, what do you think? >> well, i can tell you, romney campaign denied what i'm going to tell you right now, but i know it's true. i got it from people inside the campaign and not the spokesman, it is that whole numbers, uneven sort of you know, performance on the campaign trail the last couple of weeks. big money that was committed to mitt romney was start to go move elsewhere, starting, beginning of a trend, moving

to the senate. >> congressional, yeah, yeah. >> no doubt that was happening. they're hoping that the people inside the campaign raising money in major states are hoping this debate performance will turn things around. i could tell you, it was jazzed up yesterday and jazzed up after the debate. i can't tell you whether it worked yet, we'll know by monday. >> they're saying that they were getting two donations every second after the debate. so they're saying that they're doing well. and there are limits on how much money they can take in, a lot of big donors have already given money as you know, romney takes money from large, you know, people, not from tiny people, you know, putting 2, 4, $6. if you've seen the latest e-mails-- >> but that suggests a lot of small people might be finally jumping in as well. that's pretty impressive. at least from mitt romney's point of view, i mean, ben, what do you think? no one disputes that mitt romney won the debate. and typically, you know, people were telling me, they feel as good as they've felt throughout this entire process. >> by the way, i thought, if i

may paraphrase myself, a miracle on the debate i thought it was a great formative wonderful debate except for the omission of the fiscal debate, but i'm not concerned how much he raises, i want to him to show his guts, in his heart. if he doesn't have 100 million more, he can still win as long as he shows what's in his heart. >> i tell you what though, adam they expect a whole-- they probably spent more time on this presidential campaign, both candidates going for the walls instead of for the soul so far. >> and there's no question that there's plenty of people who want to give money to defeat president obama and seeing the debate the other night and believing again perhaps that mitt romney has the chance to do it, i would agree that that will help his fund raising and sorry to say, ben, the money does matter. it matters in our-- >> well, i will tell you, adam, some of romney's big fundraisers particularly in new york, complained that he

was fun raising it too much and not take it go to the president. scary thing about the debate and great and wonderful thing for america, what's scary about it, it exposed the man likely to be reelected to be someone so out to lunch when it comes to the economy, i'm scared about the next four years, when you don't have basic command of facts and you're the president of the united states, whoa, that's a big problem. >> does that fear that a lot of people may share what charlie translate to people, saying, you know what i'm going to pour the money into mitt romney. >> i'm not convinced just not convinced. i think he was really appealing, if you were on the sidelines and in the middle you may be persuaded and i think that he pushed back, you know, the people most critical of romney was g.o.p. talking heads. >> republicans. >> yeah, they ripped him. now, they see him in there. >> for good reason. but they put them in their place now and that probably is the best outcome for him. >> and what mitt romney at least listened to his critics. the scary thing about president obama, four years in office and he doesn't listen.

>> adam, want to go to you for the last word. >> well, mitt romney's had a lot of critics, you have to listen when it's in your own party as gerri was saying and the republican party was like, it's like some sort of weird sort of thing, and personality and-- >> and everyone agrees. >> i don't disagree, charlie. >> let me tell you everyone agrees that mitt romney played the rope-a-dope game perhaps too long and he did come out fighting and i think it reinvigorated a lot of people aen certainly should have an impact on the money. how much we'll find out. by the way, guys, did you see this? >> this is a man who has shown throughout his life, a life of integrity, a life of honor, a man with a moral compass, with a bed rock of principles. >> we need you, we need you. >> so who do we need? >> cavuto, of course. and his all-star coverage of next week's vice-presidential

debate. now, it's going to kick off at 4 p.m. eastern on the fox news channel and then 8 p.m. on the fox business network and neil will be covering the final two presidential debates and neil told me to tell you that it's okay to dvr the fox news channel and watch him live up here, and eat at home, like your kids eat at school. the latest crackdown from the food police and we're sending out our own police to take them down. (siren sounding) (laughter)

♪ >> here is some food for thought. the government urging parents to go to school to learn how to feed their kids at home. literally. the united states department of agriculture posting this on its website. quote, we recommend reviewing school menus with kids at home and working to incorporate foods that are being served at school into family meals as much as possible. gerri. >> how much do they spend on that? did they mail that? did they overnight that with fed ex, at the end of the day, this is nutty. there's a school in alexandra, they're bannings pbj. now is it not healthy. it's not peanut butter allergies, they think it doesn't fit the guidelines. >> and can you imagine someone

making-- >> and who school has that. >> the schools so bad. can you imagine they want to you eat that garbage they serve in the cafeteria at schools at home. >> let me follow-up on the story, what happened at the end of the day, and good news story at the end the kids start selling chocolate syrup on the side, on the qt. >> and on the-- >> donald trump-- >> i know you're sort of a fan of the nanny state, adam (laughter) >> i say that with love, i really do. >> and it's received with love, charles. >> thank you. >> i don't wake up in the morning and say, how can we bash the federal government today because they're such stupid people. i think that citizens can use its advice and including they can be told what types of categories of food are healthy because we clearly have an obesity epidemic in the united states. >> adam, you don't think the food in the schools are good, do you?

>> my wife and i make lunch for our daughter. and she eats the food that we would like her to eats. >> ben, i know, you don't wake up every morning thinking how to bash the federal government, but occasionally cross the line. >> and i want to put a note of history. when i went to elementary school, cost 25 cents for lunch and it was incredibly, unbelievably good and i imagine, imagine it costs about a thousand dollars per day for school now. >> and food was served in your town high school. >> and (laughter) >> which explains a lot. >> i'm kind of weird because i like school lunch food, but i also like military food, too, i know i'm kind of a weird dude. but, the idea that, listen, guys you don't know how to take care of your kids, read our menus and-- >> let us help you. let us help you, what they're saying, not let us do it. >> couldn't figure it out our

selves, the line here. >> and we have a nutrition problem and not saying we're stupid. >> ben, someone says the three worse words, we're from the government and we came to help you, paraphrasing. >> exactly. >> a nanny state. that goes too far, there is a clear thing where this goes over the line. >> this goes awould he ever the line and scary words are, it's different this time after years and years and years of the government serving people garbage for lunch long after i was in school and now it's going to be fine, it's going to be great. look, i go and speak at schools and see what the kids are eating, it's terrifying. >> and peanut butter and jelly, are you kidding me? the ultimate staple. >> and that's not exactly the best thing. >> it's a little snack in the middle of the day. this is a guy mr. fancy pants and like the big time lunches in the middle of day. >> i eat salads, go to the salad place, what's wrong with that. >> you're known for--

you're like the restaurant critic. >> i go to san pietro and get-- >> see? >> for me it's really problematic and i hope kids revolt. i hope there's an underground chocolate syrup, peanut butter and jelly and everything else is the way to go and-- >> and pizza. >> i'd rather have parents helping with the kids homework than trying to figure out how to cook like the schools. >> good luck, charles, good luck. >> and thanks to charlie and gerri. talking about a bumpy ride. some emergency landings because some seats had loose screws and why the gang from forbes say we should pay more to fly. that's at the top of the hour. next, a lot of investors are bailing on the market.

>> adam? >> charles, van guard real estate index. i love the index funds and real estate is a solid investment. >> it is interesting. they don't build more real estate but it is not always great fun. ben, i know you like it, but it feels like a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon. >> over long periods of time it does find. no one does it better than vanguard when it come to index funds . >> what do you like?